- EO Charging offers a turnkey service for car fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must hold their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a venture, together with good vitality administration, may help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Completely different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging provides month-to-month cost plans primarily based on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, in an effort to deal with completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like working a web page or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip approach of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be advanced. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it programs which are anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area similar to EV charging infrastructure, it might be onerous for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them may be advanced—just like the record of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms concentrate on one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey bundle, offering all of the services and products themselves and/or subcontracting with different corporations.
What’s the most effective course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month worth? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some suggestions for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, college districts and fleets, similar to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which are beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as effectively.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all concerning the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging immediately—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve obtained what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You have been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about loads. I for one thought it was a fantastic firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by the lens of John Walsh could be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, somewhat bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had lots of capital that obtained burned by very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I’d say, greater than something.
However don’t hand over on Proterra. The corporate was bought in three items—battery programs, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had the most effective battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the most effective battery know-how. There are lots of firms that can use their battery programs and have lots of success. I feel the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are lots of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve got your personal proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey bundle for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good alternate options primarily based on the facility ranges that they want. Once you speak to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually essential that folks overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you must preserve the chargers?” Properly, it’s essential preserve your automotive, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and doubtless a very powerful piece we’ve, is a technical operations heart [TOC]. When you’ve got a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations heart that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even understand it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep. In the event you choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re in search of, and that’s what we do.
One in all our unique traders was an organization known as Amazon, they usually demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You can ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” they usually’d say it’s 99.7. They are going to inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that lots of the issues are as a result of there could be half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a venture.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do accomplice with sure clients or sure firms. For engineering, we would accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit businesses—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I obtained to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer they usually say, “We’ve obtained three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this huge depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep programs. With us, it’s all on one display. I feel that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see every part in a single spot from an operations heart.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit businesses about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I obtained to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy suggestions for fleet operators? What are among the issues that may go fallacious, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “It’s good to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, huge, huge firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re most likely 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you might have Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I feel will get made is, when you take UPS for instance, they’re going to say, “We obtained 100 vans. We’ve to cost all of them. We’ve obtained one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We want 5.” And they’ll instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s once you hear all people busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Properly, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do lots of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of evening at a sure energy stage.
Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but in addition work with firms like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s most likely the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot aspect.
If we hear a buyer say, “Properly, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing lots of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping every part out—rip and exchange. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll offer you that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they have been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes have been arrange so they might simply add the chargers as they went alongside. The whole lot within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous essential.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the venture. Work with firms like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about these items) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We obtained a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as traditional.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I feel that’s precisely what they have been pondering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we’ve to cope with a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many purchasers which are going electrical that don’t need to. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Properly, immediately, on an electrical bus, you’ll be able to go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They refill at evening, they usually run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month cost. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll bundle our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations heart, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is admittedly engaging to lots of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month cost by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants range. Some clients have lots of idle time. Some clients are placing lots of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, they usually say, “We don’t want lots of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your entire day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from anyone in Kansas that could be working a great distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from among the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We’ve our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it suits with lots of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The scale of the charger is admittedly engaging—you don’t need to get right into a Stage 3, which may be very costly. And the neat factor concerning the Genius is we’ve them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We’ve them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger aspect, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, once you see our label on it, you must stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s anyone else’s. We do this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re completely satisfied.
The standard questions on developments
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s lots of firms, and a few them just lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I feel it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, college bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be inbuilt the US, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Just lately, you most likely noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s an excellent factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I’d say we’d like the fitting variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep aspect. However I feel consolidation is totally going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We’ve a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it suits within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to take care of, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, they usually can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking on house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one car at a super-high price, nevertheless it permits you to cut up that up. Is that one thing you’ll be able to’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you’ll be able to put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some business purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was considered one of our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, nevertheless it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually needs it, they usually need it at scale. I feel V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve obtained an influence station proper right here—we’ve obtained 1,000 college buses sitting there stuffed with vitality. I simply need to have the aptitude to tug it off that bus and into one other car or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t offer you an instance of a business utility the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
